Boy Scouts committee chair voted off for breastfeeding son – Alliance, Ohio.

*** UPDATE – Here is another view of the story from Best for Babes: http://www.bestforbabes.org/dad-stands-up-to-boy-scouts-of-america-to-defend-breastfeeding-wife-and-baby ***

********UPDATE #2 (09/04/2012): Response from Boy Scouts Buckeye Council: http://unlatched.wordpress.com/2012/09/04/response-from-boy-scouts-buckeye-council-re-committee-chair-voted-off-for-breastfeeding/

I am shocked and saddened to be bringing you this story! An Alliance, Ohio woman, Tess, and her husband, were verbally attacked at a Boy Scout committee meeting where she and her husband were then voted out of the Boy Scouts because she breastfed her son.  She was the committee chair and her husband was a Wolf Pack leader and they were amazing at their jobs.

At the end of their meeting, it was obvious there was another issue people wanted to discuss…

That was when my treasurer stood up and literally shouted at me, “There are issues with you breastfeeding! It’s disgusting! You even do it in regular shirts!” I told her that I have always been very modest, and was completely covered at all times. If there was no blanket, it was because I had a breastfeeding shirt that allowed me to nurse with out showing skin, or a regular shirt that was large enough for baby’s head to be under. At NO time could anyone every see skin.

Then, my secretary (the treasurer’s best friend) stood up and pointed her finger in my face SHOUTING “there is NO reason I should have to explain to my 11 year old daughter what you are doing under your blanket or shirt! It’s disgusting and has no place in the scouting organization. You even did it at the Hartville Chocolate Factory!”

…my husband could sit in silence no more. He started arguing mine and Sammy’s rights to nurse. They argued back that my rights were only in public venue, not at the church where our pack meets. They compared our rights to that of the most recent case of LGBT vs BSA, and said that me breastfeeding endangered the boys… and our case would fail just like the LGBT’s did.

There hasn’t been a formal response from the Boy Scouts Buckeye Council, yet.  They will be reached for comment soon.

Tess went on to say, ” I was worried because it’s a small town that me and my son wouldn’t matter because the scouts do so much in our community. However, I realize that this kind of crap will continue until breastfeeding is made something other than taboo. And the only people that are going to do that are the women that stand up for their rights and the rights of their babies.”

Please share this story and get the word out.  Moms should not be getting attacked for doing what’s best for their children!

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142 Responses to Boy Scouts committee chair voted off for breastfeeding son – Alliance, Ohio.

  1. noelle says:

    Such a pity that boys and girls in the USA aren’t educated that a breast is a source of life for babies. I don’t eat under a shirt or blanket, no adult would think that is natural for someone else to eat under a blanket or shirt, and neither should anyone consider it healthy and natural for a nursing baby to do so. Food is social, whether is comes from a breast, or a dish.

  2. mamaler0y says:

    Can someone please tell the mom that this happened to to join the target nurse in Facebook page and fill us in on what is happening with this situation? TIA

    • jen says:

      because of my relationships close to people int he organization. i want to caution you all that you are being absolutely snowed. this isnt the first unit she has been asked to leave 1 and 2 she was nursing a toddler not an infant. Know thy audience.

      • It doesn’t matter if she was nursing a toddler, WHO guidance is to breastfeed ‘up to 2 years and beyond’. Yes, that’s two onwards. Even if she was nursing a four year old there are valid arguments for doing so with the support of WHO. It doesn’t matter if the child was an infant or a toddler, that should have no relevance.

        As for her being asked to leave other units, give us the valid reasons for this. If she was asked to leave for reasons other than breastfeeding that’s fine and not the debate at hand. However, if breastfeeding was so much as mentioned negatively, or used against this women in any way, then the arguments above stand. She should be apologised to for breastfeeding being used as an excuse, infant or otherwise.

      • BFYourbaby says:

        jen, What does being a ‘toddler not an infant’ have to do with anything? Do you know that the natural age of weaning is between 2.5 years and 7 years of age. If the mother has a good milk supply then any weaning before 2 to 2-1/2 years is a premature weaning caused by too many foods being fed to the child, mother not giving enough time for the breastfeeding and building her supply, not enough access to the breast, baby struggling with nursing or the flow because of physical problems like torticollis, tongue-tie, thrush, too many and overfeeding with a bottle, a nursing strike that was perceived to be the child not wanting to nurse anymore when they were actually having a hard time with something and needed some loving patience to get back to the breast, not have a bottle or sippy shoved into their mouth and a pacifier to replace the sucking that the child needed. There are ways to help your baby/child through that but you must call an IBCLC (Int’l Board Certified Lactation Consultant) to help you figure out what to do and then follow her instructions. Just stopping because you ‘perceive’ that baby is done is not giving your child and you the best start in life.

        Still haven’t heard the reasons as yet. But if her childs breastfeeding was brought up for any reason then you guys are still in the wrong.

      • And there is the first time we start to see breastfeeding being pushed too inflexibly in this conversation. I’ve defended breastfeeding here despite having serious problems doing it myself and being highly concerned about how I’m going to manage it with my second child, due in December. But this “Just stopping because you ‘perceive’ that baby is done is not giving your child and you the best start in life” bugs me. There is another train of thought that says if breastfeeding is making the mother or child incredibly unhappy then that IS reason enough to stop and IS the best reason to stop if the alternative is frustration and upset where, ultimately, both will suffer).

        You cannot presume to know what is better for another mother and child when they get to weaning, as there are multiple factors to be taken into consideration from nutrition to social and emotional factors . Also, pushing 2.5 – 7 will not help many mothers who struggle to get to the WHO minimum recommended age of 2. Many struggle to get to the WHO recommended age of 6 months for exclusive breastfeeding. Especially in the first world giving your baby the best start in life is trying to breastfeed without negatively impacting other factors overly. In the first world breastfeeding can be interrupted by emotional stress, economic factors such as returning to work (sometimes essential to keep a roof over the child’s head) etc. Once children start to wean an outsider has no right to decide what is best for a particular family. As for giving the mother the best start, that is highly debatable. There are potential medical benefits, but breastfeeding can also be very hard and impact negatively upon the mother. Blanket statements like “Just stopping because you ‘perceive’ that baby is done is not giving your child and you the best start in life” help no one. Just as no one has any right to undermine a breastfeeding mother no one should have the right to undermine a none breastfeeding mother when you cannot hope to understand their circumstances and your opinionated judgements are more likely to do harm than good. As for the sippy cup hatred, children are likely to need to drink more than breast milk (even if it’s just water at times) and there are dental health reasons for introducing a sippy cup. Just a thought, but by school age you might want your children to be comfortable with the process of sipping.

        From six months children should have a range of foods which are gradually increased in quantity as breastfeeding decreases (not stops, but decreases). The same goes for use of formula. children need a balanced diet of food and milk. Assuming that weaning is due to ‘too many foods’ is a strange one, as children need food and I doubt many parents, even those who stop breastfeeding, stop supplying a source of milk. There are more likely other social or physical reasons why women stop breastfeeding.

        While I agree it doesn’t matter is the child was an infant or a toddler and have said so, the answer above comes across as a little patronising and more than a little presumptuous over why women stop. “not enough time”, not offering “loving patience”, you sound like you have a chip on your shoulder and that overly forceful, overly opinionated sort of answer does not help encourage breastfeeding, it in fact comes across as threatening and off-putting.

        So I agree with the sentiment that answers the infant/toddler situation, but i do wish it had been written in a less biased, overly opinionated and un-compassionate manner.

        You can’t fight prejudice and assumption with prejudice and assumption.

      • BFYourbaby says:

        Just going to answer statements as I hear them. I never said that if it wasn’t right for mother and child then you had to continue. But I have seen too many moms stop bf because they said that ‘baby just weaned herself’ and they had never thought to try to see what was going on. If mom has the knowledge that at 6 months this isn’t right, then she looks for answers, if she doesn’t then she just assumes that, “that’s that, my baby doesn’t want me and she’s done.” The statement about perceived weaning, helps because moms often think there is no alternative, they don’t realize it is not a real weaning but caused by outside forces. If it’s mother led weaning because of life circumstances then we already know the reason for the early weaning.
        Sippy cups are not needed, and can be used but you can go straight to a regular cup just like we used to do before they had such a thing. We teach our kids to drink right out of a regular glass. What does dental health have to do with sippy cups? Lip ties, tongue-ties and night bottle usage are a big culprit. Although rare in the bf child there is a chance (antibiotics or fevers in pregnancy? Antibiotic use in child? genetics? exposure to strep mutans, many reasons and theories) it can happen and those children often have lip ties and tongue-ties that were never corrected. The milk gets under the lip and sits on the teeth. But the bottle and sippy cup statement was about filling your child up so much with other things that they will feel no hunger and be satisfied without going to breast. You don’t starve your child but if he/she is already on foods you can give regular food and sips of breastmilk or water without filling them so much that they are never hungry (this helps with letting them regulate their intake so that they do not become obese), it’s a fine line but as a mom you will know how much to give your little one. These things I am saying are because I have helped many mothers who were crushed because they didn’t know how to get the breastfeeding back on track because something caused their child (whether 4 months or 22 months) to refuse the breast. Many times they are also refusing bottles and other things. So there are ways to fix the problems without having to think that the breastfeeding relationship is gone and you don’t know why. And without traumatizing your child or you.
        My comments were to inform not to judge. When my 4-1/2 month old bit me over and over to the point of almost losing a nipple and fought with me and wouldn’t nurse my heart was broken. As i was back to work, my mother in law was over feeding him and letting him chew on the bottle nipple, I didn’t know that my going longer and longer to pump (because work would not let me) was the big cause of losing my milk and he didn’t want to eat in the evening because he was so filled from the day, I had never heard of a nursing strike. If someone had written the information that I gave above or told me about it I would have been so happy. And you might say that that is what he wanted. No, not really, he became a very fussy moody child with constant ear infections and is still a mixed up boy. Had I known there were ways to fix it things might be a lot better.
        I didn’t push the 2.5 to 7 years on anyone, it is just fact. I even mentioned why premature weaning before 2 years happens. Not judging, just fact. It happened to me, it’s happened to many I know. I had to work, I lost my milk, my son had problems, my mother in law sabatoged us, she would pop an 8 ounce bottle out of his mouth as I walked in the door and was feeding him table foods and corn meal mush at 3-1/2 months maybe even 3 months old. I know other moms with IGT, and moms and babies with physical problems as mentioned in my post. But if we want and are able to make a change women have a right to know how to fix it or at least give it a shot. IF it is what they want and right for them. The reasons listed for premature weaning are all listed in literature on nursing strikes I didn’t make them up.
        Loving patience is a term to help you snuggle and hold your child to get them used to being near you so that they might start to nurse again, as opposed to trying to force them to breast everytime you hold them, there was nothing sinister nor judgemental in that phrase. It’s used to help moms get through the strike. And what was the food comment after six months about? At 6 months or so weaning starts with the gradual introduction of foods, usually about 70-90% of the diet is still breastmilk up to around 12 months with a further decrease when heading to two years and beyond. Right, I didn’t say anything negative about that. When I mentioned too much food it was because often we tend to overfeed (I followed the Gerber and my doctors advice with my first, feed first then nurse) so, of course, the milk supply goes down faster. But when you know and if you can, you nurse first and then offer foods. In this way baby is still getting the breastmilk needed and learning about foods so therefore, keeps more breastmilk in the diet which is needed. No judgement, no tone, only information. Wish I had been given it when my kids were little. Just like adoptive mothers being able to breastfeed, but many don’t know that that is even possible. I’m still learning and will continue to learn and will share that with others so they can make the choices they need and then hopefully won’t feel anger and regret for not knowing something they could have done because they learned it too late.

      • John Kinker says:

        Jen,
        My wife and I are very hurt that you honestly believe what you posted here is the truth. In the good authority of former DE, Steven Stoner, many parents of our first cub scout pack, as well as Mr. Allen Dicks, what you have been told is most certainly not true. My wife and I CHOSE to leave our first cub scout pack. That’s right, we CHOSE to. Here are the two reasons we left: 1.) My wife and I had a disagreement about how the cub master and his wife were operating the pack. (We believe the program is most effective and successful when BSA guidelines are followed, whereas the cub master and his wife did not.) and 2.) Mr. Allen Dicks contacted my wife concerning the potential folding of Pack 170.
        Pack 170 is a legacy pack. All but one of the adult leaders could no longer serve the pack due to work schedule changes and such. My wife and I chose to go there because we were needed there to prevent the pack from folding. And that is exactly what we did! When we got there, it was chaos. There was no roster, no access to the scout account, no idea what funds were available to the program, and no program planned for the boys for that year. It took us a year, but we did get it organized. In July, when my wife was accosted, we were finally pulling a head and planning a head for that year! Were we “asked to leave” our first cub scout pack?….. Yes, and no. We weren’t forced out. Mr. Dicks did offer us a pack that we could really help… UPON MY WIFE’S REQUEST.
        As far as how old my son was… what exactly are you getting at with your statement? You obviously didn’t know that my wife had breastfed my son from birth to 13 months in that pack. He was 13 months old during the pack 170 fiasco. Honestly, though…. I don’t see what difference his age makes. You can breastfeed a “toddler” just as discretely as you can a newborn.The only person in the pack (even out of the parents) that had a problem with my wife breastfeeding was a “pro-temp” committee member. Coincidentally, it was the same woman that shouted in my wife’s face about explaining breastfeeding to her 11 year old daughter.
        I believe you are the only one that has been “snowed” here, Jen. What probably happened to you is this: those “relationships close to people in the organization” that you say you have, probably wanted to save a little face. This is what those of us that actually graduated high school call a “rumor mill.” The fact that your so called “truth” is actually based upon second hand “here-say” is proof to that.

      • unlatched says:

        Thank you so much for commenting John. <3 I'm here to support you guys!

      • jen says:

        speaking of hear say, did you make sure that your blatant name dropping was approved by those you have mentioned. I think it is terrible form to drag these people into your drama.

      • Tiera Hammond says:

        You mam are nuts! Nobody is being snowed!! 1 She has not been asked to leave she chose to leave and that is NONE of your business, and has NOTHING to do with what is happening now!! and 2 here son is just over a year old and most moms try to breastfeed till around 18-24 months. She and her family are very close to us, and she is ALWAYS very discrete and covers herself and is usually off to the side somewhere. So utilize your own advice and know thy audience!!

    • John Kinker says:

      Yes. My wife and I have joined target nurse in, unlatched, breastfeeding in Ohio,Best For Babies,and many,many other groups and forums.We are currently hoping the BSA National Council with create an effective policy that closely parallels the laws of 47 states in these United States that protects and the legal rights of all breastfeeding mothers and their children

      • unlatched says:

        yes, they are already members of the Target group

      • Tom says:

        Jen, It saddens me to see your comments. My wife tried, but sadly could NOT breast feed. She would have loved to be able to. I grew up in Scouting. I have a great love for Scouting, but I know not all leaders at the local level are as open minded as others. That is true in all aspects of life. Ohio has a law. It is pretty clear in its coverage, regardless of the opinions of (I am assuming NON-Lawyers) making claims to the contrary.
        While the suggestions you make may be valid for the manner in which you (and others) may elect to raise your children, it is not the only VALID way. Ohio Law does not side with your opinions of parenting choice options. As a mother who has nursed, it’s really sad that you have elected to stand against this family and their legally protected, NORMAL choices for raising their children.
        I know people from France who hold Americans in contempt for our outlandish(to them) prudishness regarding such matters.

        Your statements regarding “so many units still will not allow woman (sic) to play major parts” is also telling – my son went to Seven Ranges Summer Camp a few years as an out of council camper because that is where his troop elected to go. He said the campers and leaders were very proud of who they were – the way they ran their camp/Scouting program. SE OH, SW PA, N. WV Tri-state area. Lots of beautiful hills and woods.

        I believe the late Sen. Robert Byrd hailed from that general area(WV). As great a man as he was, even he was able to grow with time, and come to understand that things he once held very strong beliefs about were, in fact, very wrong.

        I hope that you and the other people who found outrage and embarrassment in the situation can also find enlightenment. Please notice that I did not refer to these other people as “leaders”, for they truly are not. They are anything but. Some may feel that way about me, too. One thing I hope we can all agree on is our Constitution and the rule of law.

        Yes, private organizations do have the right to some prejudices. They do not, however, have the right to prejudices in all things they may think they do. As a former Scout/Scout Leader, I find their behavior most UN-Scoutlike.

  3. I think having your nipple half bitten off would dispute the ‘best start for mother’ statement.

    Also, many 6 month olds cannot handle a cup and it is far easier to teach them to sip from a sippy cup when they should be sipping rather than getting drinks from a bottle (non milk drinks). The dental health factor in this is that sucking on bottles, like dummies, can effect how teeth grow in. Use of a cup (sippy or otherwise) is also advisable as soon as alternative drinks are offered (juice especially, even though this should only be given with meals and water should be given between) because eventually you can progress onto using a straw. Staws are far healthier for children’s teeth as it bring the liquid in behind the teeth so they don’t get covered in whatever they’re drinking (even the natural sugars in fresh juice are horrendous on teeth). Use of a straw is far healthier than using a normal glass… It almost makes me wonder if certain types of sippy cups are too, thinking of one of my daughters which has quite a long spout. But I digress, ass that is a different piece of research.

    The use of terms like ‘loving patience’ in whatever literature you’ve learned from encourages the opinion that non-breastfeeding mothers are lacking in the same. Whether it’s your term or a term from a method used by a breastfeeding support worker or literature is irrelevant, the terminology still has an effect. To be honest, this type of methodology is regularly written by people with a very strong, but often biased and uncompromising view point. Whether they list the reasons you’ve stated for nursing strikes or not does not mean those reasons are universal or even stated from an unbiased stand point. From your post the views seems to come from a very biased and judgmental stand point. Maybe you do not judge, but your quoting a methodology that does.

    Of course, there’s also other aspects of why weaning is important, new research shows that milk does not provide the iron or vit d a child needs on its own. Their levels won’t drop overnight or anything, but the iron level will start to decrease after 6 months and the only way to combat this is either a healthy diet of supplementary food, though it only becomes a real concern after one year. Some children also just need food. There’s no way on earth my daughter could have stayed on 90% milk. Not without drinking 72oz a day. Yes, 72oz, that’s what she was heading towards when we started giving her small amounts of baby rice. And that’s without overfeeding her. She’s very lean and the perfect weight percentile for her height and always has been, apart from early on when her weight percentile was far to low for her height.

    Also, you can’t say that that bottle feeding causes them to refuse the breast, then say when the refuse the breast in a nursing strike they’ll often refuse a bottle. That’s contradictory. That means there’s something else going on other than feeding issues. That means there’s probably something psychological/emotional or possibly illness, something that has nothing to do with breastfeeding at all. Chances are that what you are calling ‘loving patience’ is something offered by most mothers if their child is showing signs of distress by refusing anything. But the use of the term as you initially used it, and in terms of the methodology you subscibe to makes it sound as though it is something only those who are educated enough to want to continue breastfeeding have the time to do.

    Also, on the subject of weaning. There were news articles not that long ago about how some research had shown in first world countries the early introduction of solids (before 6 months) can help reduce allergies in children. This doesn’t work in third world countries where economic pressures and sanitation issues mean exclusively breastfeeding until 6 months is better, but in the first world there is currently debate over the effects of exclusive breastfeeding to 6 months. While ultimately breastfeeding is better than formula due to antibodies, etc, just how long for and how much is still greatly debated. But that information is something that is often swept under the carpet by angry breast feeding activists of the type who make mothers feel like they have failed by stopping nursing. That is damaging, no mother should be made to feel she’s failed, but quite simply literature which has you spouting the ‘facts’ you’ve just given do that. They don’t just inform (as often scientific data is a little less clearly defined than stated), they actively exclude any contradictory evidence.

    Also, you can’t say it’s a fine line but mothers know how much to give, then state that we over feed. It’s one of the other. This is the importance of letting the baby lead. When my daughter was wanting oz after oz of milk we weren’t immediately giving her what she wanted to avoid over feeding, we tried to see if anything else was wrong, but in the end she was simply hungry. You have to know what your babies signs for being full are and ideally let them finger feed so that they can decide how much they want and how much they don’t. That also decreases the risk of obesity. But how much and when varies baby to baby and the type of blanket statements stated above do not fit all babies and if anything have a negative impact on mothers ans babies who don’t fit ideally into the mold. However, denying food if your baby is ready in order to mean a certain ‘ideal’ can also do harm, increasing likeliness of allergies, fussiness, problems getting to grips with foods. And I’m not big into over feeding or the wrong sort of food; it’s a bone of contention I have with one of my daughter’s grandparents that she acts full, then they give her more and more food when she just doesn’t need it until her next meal time.

    My daughter also won’t take food if she wants milk. Breakfast is an interesting one, sometimes she demands food then milk, sometimes milk then food. I can’t see why a breastfed one year old would be any different in knowing what it wanted first. At one a child should start becoming assertive, it should start knowing what it wants and doesn’t want, and while to certain degree a parent has to influence this behavior to be healthy you can’t really promote a baby led rather than mother led route without listening to what your baby is indicating, because that still reverts to a mother led route.

    And yes, I read. I read a lot on breastfeeding before having my first to try and make sure I could do it and why I should. I also saw breastfeeding support workers when it didn’t work and my child started loosing weight and getting increasingly jaundice because of it. I’m quite tired of so called educated people spouting off why I should’ve done this, that or the other and why I failed when they haven’t got the foggiest and are making ridiculous assumptions. Yes, I have a chip too. But the sort of overly zealous hypothesis shown in many breastfeeding books and your statements introduces a high blame culture onto mothers and that infuriates me because it does not help or inform, it pushes a particular viewpoint and exacerbates prejudice without ever admitting that any mother can genuinely need to bottle-feed or that a baby may be better weaning earlier.

    Anyway, that’s me done. I am not being re-drawn into this debate as here is not the forum for it. This is about a woman’s right to breastfeed, not why some breastfeeding advocates claim mothers give up to soon. And I am planning on breastfeeding my next, due December, but I really do find the type of over-zealous methodology many breast feeding advocates spout to be detrimental and actually makes me reluctant. It causes too much stress and too much prejudice and the stress factor over ‘breast being best, no questions asked’ did me more harm than good with my first. Breast is only best until it isn’t. There’s a wealth of information out there if women want to find it, that doesn’t mean we need to word it in a prejudice and judgmental way.

    Pro breastfeeding and breastfeeding protection, but totally against being overly zealous and biased over the matter of weaning, where the evidence for and against certain ages is still open to debate.

    • BFYourbaby says:

      You are totally reading into my facts and comments what you want. Read my first small paragraph. I was giving information for the breastfeeding mother who might have lost her nursing relationship before she wanted to do so (thinking that it was just the way it was), not one who chose to do so. The loving patience could be applied to a bottle fed child or any child with a difficulty, that is how you win them back. I said nothing against the formula feeding mother, not even implied. I’ve read it over and over and don’t get where you’re coming from. Loving Support is used by many, even WIC. If you formula, breast or whatever that is your choice. If education and knowledge make you feel guilty or pressured that is not my fault. I feel the information should be widely available so that a mother can choose what she wants and have a variety of ways to keep or end her breastfeeding or other feeding relationship the way she chooses. Not giving the information and keeping women in the dark does not help any of us and we are reduced to following half truths and myths. They’ll keep putting Karo syrup in evaporated milk or not bf if they have a fever. eat a chocolate, smoke, are lactose intolerant or drink one beer. Or think that drinking milk or water in excess, will make more breastmilk. I guess what you’re saying is not to let women know because they might feel pressured or guilty. That’s patronizing and paternalistic.

      I practiced Baby Led Weaning. My kids didn’t have sippy cups. They were fed breastmilk from a softcup feeder and regular cups and a sippy for play and practice. The one that had bottles had the ear infections. Yes, bottle nipples form incorrect oral structure and can cause sleep apnea and bad teeth and snoring. Yes, cavities happen because of the pooling of fluid in the mouth. No one is questioning any of that. I never gave my kids juice, until they were over a year. The ‘feeding solids before 6 months or you’ll get allergies’ was found to be not evidence based or correctly done research, that’s why even the AAP went back to the 6 month mark. And why give me the lesson on iron, Vitamin D and the reduction in iron at 6 months? Lactation 101. That’s not new research. Vit. D is last 10-12 years or so but the iron? LLLI, 1956 said to add foods around the middle of the first year. How new are you to all of this? Sorry, don’t expect an answer. Just wondering. And yes, I’m done, too.

      You want to read over-zealous. Read formula marketing advertisements. It’s ok for them though, I suppose.

  4. “If education and knowledge make you feel guilty or pressured that is not my fault.” there’s a big difference between education ans knowledge compared to biased and uncompromising methodologies which can’t accept that they do not always work or are not right all of the time. You accusation is really irritating, because that’s not what I’m saying at all. What I want is evidence in a non-biased way that allows a fair decision making without prejudice no matter what a mother chooses. The knowledge doesn’t make me feel guilty or pressured, but the prejudice of breastfeeding activists does. As with anything, push too hard and you’ll meet resistance. The phrasing you’re quoting pushes a prejudice in the other direction.

    ” I guess what you’re saying is not to let women know because they might feel pressured or guilty.” Lol, who’s reading what they want? I have no problem with information, I have a problem with the misuse of some information and denial of other information due to someones biased agenda. Patronizing is writing a ‘truth’ that denies the existence of other evidence and forces people to feel they’ve failed if they don’t fit someone elses ideals.

    “The ‘feeding solids before 6 months or you’ll get allergies’ was found to be not evidence based or correctly done research, that’s why even the AAP went back to the 6 month mark. ” Actually, I’m referring to research by the Institute foe Child Health in Britain that has onlt been reported on since I had my daughter a year ago. Not something that happened before 6 months was advised.

    “And why give me the lesson on iron, Vitamin D and the reduction in iron at 6 months? Lactation 101. That’s not new research. Vit. D is last 10-12 years or so but the iron? LLLI, 1956 said to add foods around the middle of the first year. ” Vit D supplements for one year old are only advised in this country from this year, because it’s becoming such a problem. The iron thing is also something I’ve heard a number of breastfeeding advocates argue when talking about delayed weaning. LLLI are not an unbiased organisation for sourcing evidence.

    “How new are you to all of this? Sorry, don’t expect an answer. Just wondering. And yes, I’m done, too. ” Getting rude much? Just because I disagree with how your attitude effects mothers? But, based on the fact your questioning the age of new debate over the 6 month weaning age and quoting 1956 information how old are you to this? Just seems like you aren’t keeping up with new elements of debate. I don’t expect an answer either.

    • Kim says:

      LADIES!!!! TIME OUT!!!!

      1) BFYourBaby – I applaud your enthusiasm, and agree with many statements you have made, however, SOME of the wording in your original post COULD be interpreted as dismissing a woman who’s child is not breastfeeding into their toddler and pre-school years as “just not having tried hard enough”. I’m NOT saying this is what you meant, only that it COULD be interpreted that way, especially by someone who has struggled with breastfeeding, and has heard that very same comment time after time after time.

      2) TheWeddingStationer – I also understand what you are going through – it sounds like your child has a very high metabolism – which could very well cause issues with ensuring that she receives enough nutrition. My brother was the same way – he came home from the hospital after being born, and had to feed EVERY HOUR for at least a week! (Yes, my mother breastfed him – all of us, for that matter, and it was the late 60’s/ early 70’s, when it wasn’t that popular). Even as he got older, he was always hungry, and needed to eat a snack before bed, or he would actually lose weight! When he hit puberty, you could see his ribs, and he was inhaling food. I am sure that you have had many struggles, with some well-intentioned people, and I’m sure you’ve more than reached your limit with it all. I think you need to take a step back, and look at the posts with fresh eyes. All I see is someone who is very passionate about trying to do a good thing by spreading knowledge. Perhaps she is getting some of her words mixed up because of that passion, and perhaps there are some brand-spanking-new studies out there (if they’re very recent, how can you expect her to know about them? Can you provide a link? Also, if they’re not peer-reviewed, or if they’re only a small sample size, there may be issues with the study – we all need to look at studies critically), but I don’t think she meant to make ANYONE feel dismissed, or “like a failure”, and I think you are reading a *little* of that into her words.

      3) For both of you – Both of you need to back off a little, cool down, and look for ways to meet in the middle, rather than rip each other to shreds! You both have – rather successfully, I might say – taken over this thread with your personal argument! You BOTH have made some good points. Now, take a step back!

      Let’s all have a little bit of compassion and understanding for one another!

      • Kim says:

        Oh, and for the record, whether there were “other issues” or not, ANYTIME a women’s breastfeeding of her child is held against her, is down-right WRONG! If her child was a sexually-developing teen – then I can, perhaps, agree that the situation needs to be looked at. But NOT just because she was nursing a 2 yr old! That used to be the NORM before bottle-feeding and cow’s-milk drinking was so widely promoted!

  5. unlatched says:

    If you would like to contact the BSA…Here is contact info for both their local BSA council and the National BSA office…

    Buckeye Council:
    330-580-4272
    800-589-9812 Toll Free
    buckeye@bsamail.org
    Cynthia Gaines is the Field Director at Buckeye council. her number is 330-580-4272 Ext.133 her email: cygaines@bsamail.org
    more phone numbers/emails at the Buckeye Council: http://www.buckeyecouncil.org/About%20Us/Whos%20Who)
    Buckeye Council Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Buckeye-Council/167207979169

    National Level:
    pr@scouting.org
    800-323-0723
    facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Boy-Scouts-of-America/113441755297

  6. Pingback: Response from Boy Scouts Buckeye Council Re: Committee Chair Voted Off for Breastfeeding | unlatched.

  7. John Kinker says:

    Jen,
    In the first place…. How can you consider the violation of a child’s legal right to eat and drink to be “drama?” That statement alone, to me, is appalling! If you actually have kids, you must not have breastfed them.The reason we feel comfortable mentioning names is because what we have to say is the truth. There is no shame or “bad form” in giving names, because we’re not fabricating a “second-hand” story, such as yours. I would also like to point out that I “dropped” names concerning YOUR false accusations on a COMPLETELY separate subject. One that is long in the past, and has nothing to do with my child’s right to eat. I’m not “tarnishing” their good name in scouting by involving them in the current issue at hand because they weren’t involved in it. I’m just setting the record straight concerning the first pack we were in because of your accusation. What I said is common knowledge for all those involved… which are all those that I named. (notice, your name was not mentioned in any of my posts except for in greeting.) In short, you weren’t involved in any of the meetings concerning our first pack, so you really don’t know what went on. However, I can provide names when I tell the truth, because it is common and factual knowledge referencing those actually involved.. Please stop back-peddling, trying to commit slander, and undermining the truth.

    Now, back to the ORIGINAL subject concerning the breastfeeding issue with pack 170 and Buckeye Council’s response…..

    I would love to know what “many other reasons” are attributed to my wife’s dismissal as committee chair. We have a number of people willing to vouch for our character (both in and outside the scouting program), and my wife has well documented and indisputable proof to counter that particular accusation. There were NO other reasons for them to ask her to step down or force our family out. The local council and COR have NOT been in contact with us since the 17th of August. I fail to see how they are working with us to help us continue in our scouting. The only thing we are asking of BSA National is that they take a stance, and form policies protecting breastfeeding mothers and children’s rights within their organization.

    If the BSA does not share the thoughts and opinions of those that harassed my wife, then there are policies that need to be put in place, and people at the LOCAL LEVEL of the organization that need to be educated. Again, this “problem” that we are making public only reflects the ignorance of a few individuals at the local level. NOT the entirety of the organization. Even if BSA National does NOT create a policy protecting mothers and nursing children’s rights within the organization, they must acknowledge the Ohio State Law.

    “Ohio Rev. Code Ann. § 3781.55 (2005) provides that a mother is entitled to breastfeed her baby in any location of a place of public accommodation wherein the mother is otherwise permitted. (SB 41)”

    My wife, and THOUSANDS of other women, are permitted to be involved in the scouting organization and on the property in which scouting events take place, Therefor, this law protects nursing mothers and their children (NO MATTER WHAT AGE the child is) on scouting property, and within their organization. We only want the wrong that was done, to be corrected by apology and education, and mother’s and children to be able to nurse without harassment within the scouting community. We want to see positive change in a positive, wonderful and powerful program. We (up to this point) have been honored to participate in this outreach program, and would LOVE to continue to do so…. but not at the cost of our child’s needs, or my wife and child’s rights. Our goal by taking this public was to make aware the situation concerning the local level, educate, fix as to protect individual rights, and move on. That is STILL our goal. We DO NOT want to tear down this AMAZING program. We want to help build it up! We want to help make it a positive place for families, volunteers, and scouts.

    • jen says:

      I have children several who are int he program all of whom I have nursed for extended periods of time. In essence by taking this whole thing public you have shamed the community and everyone involved in it. you are the kind of people who bring a bad name to adults and women specifically in the program. this isn’t about your child’s right to eat or drink. It is about drama and madness and taking away from the program. you child is a toddler and toddlers needs to be taught boundaries. I nursed a toddler and at some point, they too need to be taught a proper WHEN AND WHERE. he can eat other foods, he can drink other drinks. for an hour meeting a pack of goldfish and a sippy cup should be more than enough to satisfy his nutritional needs. you all wouldn’t nearly bee in the uproar you are in where your child’s SOLE NUTRITIONAL NEEDS came from your wife’s milk. (like say in an infant 6 to 9 months or less) You, my friend are the reason that many adults say that sports, scouts, and any other children’s activities would be better with out the parents. And you are also the reason why so many units still will not allow woman to play major parts in their organizations. It is a sadness and a pity all around. Good luck in the rest of your scouting ventures and God help us all if we ever run into each other at an event.

      • Kim says:

        Jen, at 13 months of age, roughly 70% of a child’s nutrition (should) still come from breastmilk. Solid food at this age is more for experimentation and learning, and only minorly for nutrition. Some children do not even begin solid foods until 12 months, especially if there is a strong history of food allergies in the family. That means that it is still “appropriate” to nurse a 13-month-old BABY during a meeting.

        Now, having said that – it is not your place to decide when, where, or how a woman breastfeeds. That is what this whole thing is about! Just because you have chosen a different way, does not mean you have the right to decide how another woman parents her child. It does not make your way any more right than hers, and it does not make her way any more right than yours. You are each mothers, with different children, and you EACH have the LEGALLY SUPPORTED ABILITY to make decisions about how to feed your babies. End of story. No further discussion. It doesn’t matter how old the child is, how often he nurses, whether it’s in a church, in a council meeting, on a park bench, in the mall, in a box or with a fox, in a house or with a mouse. It doesn’t matter whether the mother uses a cover or not. ***None of that matters!*** It’s a decision between the breastfeeding mother and her child. Those are the ONLY people who have ANY say in the matter. PERIOD. BY LAW. Any shame that is felt is well-deserved, and not by John or his wife!

      • Elisheva says:

        Suggesting that goldfish crackers and sippy cup should be sufficient nourishment for a toddler reveals your underlying prejudice – you don’t feel nursing a child in public is appropriate. You don’t deny that the child should be allowed to eat during a meeting, just not THAT…

        It is up to the mother and child to decide WHEN AND WHERE her child eats – and breastfeeding is just that. Feeding her child. That’s all. It doesn’t need to be hidden and children do not need to be ‘taught boundaries’ around it. It’s just food. (And the idea that feeding a child over-processed, imitation cheese, crap crackers is more desirable than nursing is why we have a nation of obese people.)

        Further, I don’t give rat’s tuches about the reputation of the Boy Scouts. IMHO, the codified homophobia and bigotry that BSA defends and supports has destroyed any positive reputation the organization ever had. That being said, however, you sound like the Catholic church did when not wanting any investigation into child molestation charges because it looks bad for the group. Those sort arguments, the ones that say don’t complain or tell anyone we might have done something bad – make the organization in question look SO much worse.

        If you truly care about BSA, you’d be right beside this couple in their struggle. You’d be making sure your precious group isn’t violating the law and that it’s doing what’s best for families and babies. (And you definitely would not be attempting to smear the people who have righteous complaints on blogs.)

      • AuntieGram says:

        Wow! I do not know where to begin. You will never understand the side of the “non-nursers”.
        There is no reason to explain the reasons for the other views. You have your mind made up as to the thoughts behind any views other than your own. I nursed, I loved doing it and my longest nurser decided on her own to quit at 10 months. I nursed when it was not popular. But knowing that what I wanted may not be what others wanted, I did not upset my nursing child by becoming so incensed with others’ views. I respected my choice and did not detour from it and I respected other views even tho I did not accept them. But, then , I have always been “the mediator”. I do not like conflict.. I survived and so did my children.

        I wish with all my heart that we Americans could use MORE common sense in our lives. But, alas, that will never be. When Nursing becomes a Battleground, who wins?

      • John Kinker says:

        Yes. Every leadership position is open to women. In fact, more than one-third of Scout volunteers are women.”
        That is from their FAQ at Scouting.org. (http://www.scouting.org/FAQ/Volunteer.aspx)

        Notice, they are quoted as saying “MORE THAN.” Which means, out of the 1.2 million volunteers, MORE THAN 400,000 are women, that have over 800,000 breasts, and can lactate! One would figure, with that many women being involved, they would have a.)run across this situation a while back, and developed a policy concerning what is currently being discussed, and, b.) if they haven’t already run into this problem, be more than willing to resolve the situation by stating that they are a breastfeeding friendly organization. I mean, considering most all women that give birth lactate, and all scouts have a mom… makes sense, right? If I were running a organization where 1/3 of my volunteers were women/mom’s that were darn good at their jobs, I surely wouldn’t want to loose them.

        One would conclude that after 102 years of existence, an organization that prides it’s self on “being prepared”, would have a policy in place concerning such valued members of our scouting community and family.

      • @ Jenn – I HAVE.TO.BE misreading that. You said “this isn’t about your child’s right to eat or drink. It is about drama and madness and taking away from the program”…. that the top priority, their children and the nutritional and emotional health should come SECOND to boyscouts. Wow, that is sad. Don’t we put our children in Boy Scouts TO HELP OUR CHILDREN?! So is the program there for the children or are the children there for the program? Sad indeed.

        Additionally, you are saying that the parents need to put boundaries on their kids. Well, first this is just your opinion. Would you be cool with me saying I say your kids should have to eat this or do that? That really is not your place and you mention boundaries- you are might want to look at yourself in that because it is no one else’s business on how someone raises their children.

        And ADDITIONALLY, you mention God. I am guessing you are Christian because of the roots of boy scouts and you mentioning God. You might seriously want to read what Scriptures say about breastfeeding – which GLORIFIES breastfeeding AND THE MOTHER and specifically mention her breasts. Besides, what age do you think Jesus stopped breastfeeding? If you have any questions about what Scriptures say about breastfeeding, I will be happy to help show you.

  8. Kellye8498 says:

    Jen seems to be VERY ill informed. If you honestly think that your daughter, at 11 years of age, doesn’t understand breastfeeding then you have one hell of a surprise coming your way. I hate to see how you’re going to react when she has sex ed in school this year and learns about sex and periods, lol. That poor sheltered child will be out running a muck and sleeping with any boy she sees when she finally comes across the info mom was “hiding from her” for all that time.

    It’s time to relax and see the truth…kids don’t think of breastfeeding as sexual. Know why? Because it’s NOT! Stop teaching your daughter to think something natural that God gave us is wrong. Human milk for human babies!!!

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